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Seat Fix
From: Jan Pinkowish
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:35:28 EST
Subject: Re: 4kq/CGT/coupe Q front seat bottom bolster fix
Hi Brendan,
Add this to the seat swap/fix stuff you assemble. This is my procedure for
replacing and ugrading the seat bottom bolsters.
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Seat bottom side bolsters in the '80's Audis are molded urethane rubber with
a deep channel on the underside that fits onto a narrow metal support rod in
the seat frame. A hard plastic channel keeps the bolster centered. Over
time, the plastic cracks and the support rod cuts through the bolster.
Although the door side bolsters suffer the worst, this also happens to the
console side bolsters. When you see the design, you'll realize that "team
door handle" was just the warm-up act.
General comments:
1) Lowest effort rebuild is to find a mint condition pass 4kq/CGT passenger
seat with the same fabric as your current interior. The seat bottoms are a
"drop in" swap. Only difference is that the outer side bolster on the pass
seat is slightly "flatter" than the inner bolster. You won't even notice
after reinstall.
2) Fall back strategy is to find a pass seat with an undamaged console side
bolster in the seat bottom. You cut this off the seat bottom and glue to
your existing seat botttom. Procedure is below.
3) Remember that the trim at the sides of the seat is attached with "hidden"
press-fit plastic posts. You need to push them out from behind. Use
patience.
4) After you remove the seat back, the seat bottom cushion and cover come
off as one assembly. Undo the wires at the rear of the seat, pull out the
plastic plugs on the front underside of the frame, and GENTLY undo the metal
"barb" tabs on the sides of the frame the holds the cloth/leather cover.
With gentle persuation, you get it off.
5) Reverse to reassemble.
Here's how I replaced my seat bolster and improved the design:
1) Remove the seat cushion/cover from the donor seat.
2) Fold back the cover from the bolster that you're going to use. You'll
see that the center of the seat is retained by a networked metal rod frame.
3) Using a serated 10" or 12" bread knife, remove the bolster by cutting off
right where the metal network ends(awkward description, but obvious when you
see it). Try real hard to keep your cut perpendicular to the top/bottom of
the cushion.
4) Use the same technique to remove the damaged bolster from your driver
seat.
5) Glue the good bolster to your seat cusion. I used Outdoor Goop contact
sealant & adhesive(Eclectic Products, Inc. Pineville, Louisiana USA
800/767-4667) that I bought at Sears. Prolly also available at Home Depot,
Lowe's, etc. Goop is a
high volume product that fills in irregularities, has high tack, and gives a
great bond. The 3M(or other) spray adhesive is inneffective because is
requires exact fit of the mating surfaces to achieve high strength bonding.
6) Coat both the bolster/cushion mating surfaces with pleny of adhesive, let
dry for a few minutes, mate the parts, press together HARD and move your
hands up and down the parts. Put this assembly into the seat bottom frame,
but don't reassemble. Put a board on the center of the cushion, put about
20-30 lbs weight on it. Check to see bolster is still intimately mated to
the cushion, maybe use a duct tape butterfly to make that happen.
7) Let cure for 24 hours.
8) Inspect the plastic channels on the undersides of the bolsters. Using
Goop and scrap pieces of channel, reinforce where necessary. Let cure for 24
hours.
8a) This is the time to clean/polish/relubricate the seat bottom frame. Also
time to go out to your wife's car and find all the dropped money before she
does. While you're shovelling out the change, you can clean and relube the
seat guides and locking handle.
9) Take some vacuum hose and cut a length to fit on the metal rod on which
the bolster rests. Use an outer diameter of hose that will easily slip into
the plastic channel inside the seat bolster. Slit the hose length wise and
slide onto the metal rod. No need to glue into place. Coat with silicone to
ease with reass'y. This trick provides some cushioning for the hard plastic
channel.
9) Seat the cushion ass'y into the seat bottom frame.
10) Apply a layer of duct tape to the innera and outer sides of both of the
bolsters before wrapping the fabric/leather back down. Run the tape
front/back(not side/side). Start low and work to the top of the bolster.
Finish with a "cap" strip at the top of the bolster. This little trick
allows the seat cover to slide over the foam. It reduces surface abrasion of
the foam, and reduces the rocking of the bolster on that stupid narrow
bolster support rod that causes all this trouble in the first place.
11) Wrap the seat fabric down over the bolsters. Press down on the bolsters
to ensure they've seated completely on the hose covered supports.
12) Finish reass'y of seat.
This is a simple but long job. The only critical part is carefully cutting
the donor and bad bolsters.
Jan Pinkowish
'85 4ksq
Bristol, CT
And, on the subject of heated seats...
Date Fri, 02 Jul 1999 133343 -0400
From "Doyt W. Echelberger"
Subject Heated seats fixed (5k)
Several listers wanted to know how to fix their seat heaters before winter
sets in. The method was good for an 1987 5kcstq with leather seats, and
having electrical adjustment and position memory. I have no website, so
this post is probably headed for the archives.
SHORT VERSION After you find the broken element, soldering nichrome
doesn't work. Crimp after twisting around a third conductor such as a
thicker solid copper wire section. Substitute plastic ties in place of hog
rings when you put the seat back together.
Additional notes Check out the connections between the feed wires that go
to and from the thermistor, which is located in the heating element pad. On
several seats, we found one of those wires broken right where it joins one
side of the thermistor wafer. The thermistor is a separate unit that is
only in physical contact with a section of the resistance wire. It is glued
to the resistance wire, and can be peeled off, repaired, and reattached.
This was in addition to finding and fixing the burned spots in the actual
heating element pad.
Caution Heater elements in the 4kq are very different than are described
here, and much harder to locate and diagnose.
GETTING THE SEATS OUT
The electrically adjustable leather front seats came out of the 87 5kcstq
easily by first removing the two front bolts that hold each seat to the
floorboard, and also removing the small bumpers at the ends of the seat
track. Otherwise the seat won't easily slide out the back of the track.
Also, slice your carpet at the rear of the inner track, to ease that seat
runner from sliding under the carpet as it exits, and jamming the removal.
You can cut the carpet just after taking off the blade-like plastic trim on
top of the rear inner track (one screw).
We didn't disconnect the battery during our work, which made it possible to
use the power adjusters on the seats to get them into more favorable
positions. It would probably be a good idea to consider battery
disconnection once the seats are in full reverse position and just before
you start taking them out.
After you have the driver seat unbolted in front, you can tip it up toward
the steering wheel, block it in place, and get underneath with a flashlight
to pull apart the three electrical connectors Seat belt sensor (white
plastic), Power for adjuster motors (brown, large, and hard to reach);
Actual seat heater power and thermistor wires (six prong two-color brown
and green plastic). These are all plastic-tied to adjacent structures. We
cut the plastic ties and replaced the ties at reassembly.
After unplugging the electricals, slide the seat backward and out onto the
rear passenger floor. (To avoid grease on the carpet, first cover with
disposable towel.)
To avoid fighting the steering wheel during seat removal, pivot the driver
seat and removed it headrest-first through the back door. Passenger front
seat comes out the front door pretty much the same way, but with fewer
electrical connections. Thorough vacuum cleaning of the carpet around the
seats is now possible prior to seat replacement, and will never be easier.
GETTING THE SEATS APART
When you have the seats in the shop on the bench, find the plastic shields
on each side at the junction of the seat bottom and the seat back. These
have several almost invisible plastic push-pins holding them in place. Use
a punch to find them and remove them, otherwise you break off the tubes the
pins are in, and the shield is toast to re-install.
With the shields off, Go to the panel that contains the seat position
controls. Unscrew the two retaining fasteners (front and middle
screws)that hold the control panel covers to the underlying supports.
Then take off the black caps from the bolt heads at each pivot point for
the seat back. Under each black cap is a big Phillips-head screw. Take them
out on both sides. Now move the two-part control panel cover to a safe
location away from your work area.
Use a big screwdriver to pry the flat angular pivot plate up and off its
pin on the seat bottom, doing first one side all the way, then the other.
The plate is springy enough to allow this. Now the seat bottom is loose
from the seat back except for two wires. Don't apply undue stress on these
unsupported wires as you manipulate the seat components.
TAKING OFF THE SEAT COVERING
Again, without undue stress on the wires, tip both seat halves up on one
side and inspect the underside and rear of the bottom seat.
Start at either rear corner of the bottom seat, and locate the wire cable
that runs in a fabric tube all the way around the sides and front of the
seat cover. At each rear corner, it wraps up and around a metal ear of the
seat structure. This wire must be traced and un-bent/unwrapped from its
perch on the ear. Loosening either corner takes the tension off the lower
edge of the seat cover, making it easier to loosen at the other attachment
points on the sides and front and at the other corner.
At the front of the seat bottom there are two obvious pointed push-pins
that look like buttons holding the fabric under the front edge. Press these
pins out, after first loosening them with a flat bladed screwdriver, and
pull them the rest of the way with pliers.
On each bottom side, find a bent-over metal tooth about midway, holding the
seat cover. With pliers, bend the tooth out straight and pull the cover
from its snagged grip. You now have the front and sides free.
Go to the back edge of the cover and massage, pry/tug the fold-over flap
from its metal slot all along the back of the seat bottom. If you get one
end loose, it slides out easily with some pulling with pliers and flat-blades.
You can now peel the seat cover up and off its block of seat foam.
With the rear, sides and front of the seat cover up, you can see where the
wires and hog-ring clips hold the center section of the seat cover in place.
Instead of removing each hog ring individually, I un-bent the looped end of
each foot-long support wire over which the rings are clipped, and I pulled
the entire wire out from the string of hog rings. It then required a few
careful snips with sharp scissors to get the tube of seam fabric (that
contained the support wire) away from each hog-ring clamp.
You now have access to the actual seat heater pad, which is held to the
sides and front of the foam with low-grade adhesive. It separates with some
effort and a little tearing of the foam.
FINDING THE ELECTRICAL FAULT
You can inspect the surface of the pad and easily spot the burned areas
that identify broken resistance wires. Most of ours were along the outside
edge of the bolster, where the weight of the passenger or driver first
slams down on the seat and bends the element.
Using an Exacto knife, I dissected the wires out of the fascia of pad
material for about an inch and a half at both sides of the break. I then
did a conductivity test between each end and the connector plug, to prove
that I had found the only break in that section. If you can't prove
conductivity, you are going to have to pin out the wire until you find the
other fault(s). By that, I mean poke pins into the resistance wire through
the insulation and do conductivity tests until you find good wire, then
work backwards until you isolate the break and fix it.
I shaved the insulation back along each end of the broken element for about
a half inch, twisted them tight individually and then twisted them together
in to a short stub, and then wrapped the stub around a section of solid
copper #16 wire and crimped the final structure with a commercial crimp
connector of the proper size.
We didn't have any faults in the seat backs, so I can't write about fixing
them. It appears that all our faults were due to passenger weight fatiguing
the bottom seat wires over years of daily use.
FINISHING UP
Retest the conductivity of all the circuits, make sure you find and check
the thermistor and its connections, and reassemble the seat using plastic
ties in place of the hog rings. Reassembly is the reverse of taking it apart.
Doyt Echelberger
87 5kcstq
From "Andrew Lundy"
Subject Seat Heater Repair 80 90 CQ
Date Tue, 23 Jan 2001 161251 -0600
This is a re-post of my earlier message. I made one small clarification
change!!!
****
This is the procedure that I used to repair the seat heaters on my 80Q.
This procedure will be able to be applied directly to the `88-`91 80/90/CQ.
This procedure will also work on the 4000/5000/100/200/S4's as well as the
later 90 models, but the wire colors and a few other details may differ
slightly.
Tools needed
Circuit tester
Multimeter
10 mm socket (possibly)
Ratchet w/ small extension (possibly)
The connectors
Locate the green six point connector located under the seat. You should be
able to gain enough access to this connector by simply sliding the seat all
the way back (manual seats). Pull the connector apart.
Here is a (very) rough picture of the connectors---label as shown as if
looking into connector
Connector A
---------------------------
X(1) * X(2) X(3)
X(4) * X(5) X(6)
---------------------------
(This connector goes under the carpet and leads to the auxiliary relay
panel)
X - Denotes a metal (female type) electrical connector
* - Denotes empty (void) space---helps better relate orientation
Wires colored as follows
Drivers Side
(1) - Brown
(2) - Black/White
(3) - Black/Yellow
(4) - Brown/Blue(Jumper to 5)
(5) - Brown/Blue
(6) - Brown/Black
Passenger Side
(1) - Brown
(2) - Green/Black
(3) - Black/Red
(4) - Brown/Blue(Jumper to 5)
(5) - Brown/Blue
(6) - Brown/White
Connector B
-----------------------------
---(1) * ---(2) ---(3)
---(4) * ---(5) ---(6)
-----------------------------
(This connector goes into the seat)
--- - Denotes a metal spade (male type) electrical connector
* - Denotes plastic tab---helps better relate orientation
Colored as follows
Drivers Side/Passenger Side(both are the same)
(1) - Brown/Blue
(2) - Brown/Blue
(3) - Brown/Black
(4) - Brown
(5) - Black/White
(6) - Black/Yellow
Testing procedure
1) Turn the ignition to the on position---warning lights on
2) Flip on the seat heater switch
(Leave this for the entire testing procedure)
Step one
The plugs need to be connected for "Step 1". If the plugs are not
connected, this test procedure will not work. After "Step 1" is completed
the connectors can be pulled apart for all of the remaining tests.
The first step is to be sure that there is power going to the seat. Find a
good known ground in the car, I like to use the top of the cigarette lighter
(the metal at the very top), hook one side of the circuit tester to the
ground and the other side into Connector A (3). If you have power (light)
then skip to step three.
Step two
If you don't have power then remove the panel under the steering wheel and
locate the auxiliary relay panel (Ratchet and Socket needed). Locate the
appropriate relay, #13 & #14 (pre-'91) or #14 and #18 (`91). Remove the
relay and look at the bottom of the relay, near the prongs there will be an
"h" on one and another will have a "15" by it (along with markings for all
the other prongs). Locate where the prongs of the "h" and "15" plug-in to
the relay panel. Test the "h slot" (in the relay panel) with the circuit
tester to be sure it has power. If there is no power, check the fuse, if
fuse is okay locate the break in the wiring between the fuse and relay
panel.
If "h slot" has power then test the continuity of the wire between the relay
and the seat. To do this put the multimeter in the lowest resistance (ohms)
range, put one end into the "15 slot" and place the other end in Connector A
(3). You should get a very small resistance between the two, if you get no
reaction from the multimeter, trace the wire and repair the break. If you
obtain a resistance test the function of the switch. To do this, use the
circuit tester and connect it to ground and the "86 slot" in the relay
panel. Also check the "P slot" for power......this should barely light only
in the first two positions and then it shouldn't light. If power is not
attained at both slots then repair/replace the switch or wiring between. If
power is attained at both slots then swap the relay with the other one and
return to step one (or see if the seat gets hot with the new relay in).
Step three
This step requires checking the continuity of the heating elements. To do
this use Connector B. Use the lowest resistance setting on the multimeter
and connect (6) and (2). Again, you should end up with a very small
resistance; if not, then the "butt" heating element has a break in it. To
fix this check here
http//members.aol.com/c1j1miller/body.html#Seat%20Heater%20element%20fix
If you obtain a small resistance then, on Connector B, use the multimeter
and connect (1) and (4). If you obtain a small resistance then go to step
four. If no resistance is returned then there is a break in the "backrest"
heating element. There are two methods that can be used to fix this.
Method one Follows similar to the following link except your in the
backrest
http//members.aol.com/c1j1miller/body.html#Seat%20Heater%20element%20fix
Method two You can simply splice wires on Connector A and bypass the
"backrest" heater. If you choose to do this, on Connector A, cut the jumper
wire, then splice the wire from (5) into wire (1). You can leave the loose
wire at (4) disconnected.
Step four (two options)
Connect the circuit tester to a known voltage source and to Connector A (1).
If there is no power (light) then trace the wiring and repair break. If you
get power you made a mistake somewhere, go back to step one and follow the
procedure again (or your seat heater works)!!!
OR
Set the multimeter to the lowest resistance setting and check for
continuity. To do this place one lead on a known ground and the other lead
to Connector A (1). Again, you should get small resistance. If no
resistance is returned then trace the wiring and repair break. If there is
a little resistance then you made a mistake somewhere, go back to step one
and follow the procedure again (or your seat heater works)!!!
Good Luck!!!
---
Andrew Lundy
